In the wake of the shootings at Virginia Tech, you’d expect some debate about gun control and whether or not lives could have been saved if some f the students were armed.
What you might not have expected is the debate currently going on in some of the more right-wing corners of the blogosphere over whether or not the students at Virginia Tech were cowards, or whether our culture breeds cowardice.
Don’t Mess With Derb!
The first salvo in this debate was fired by John Derbyshire from the National Review, who wrote in a piece called The Spirit of Self-Defense:
As NRO’s designated chickenhawk, let me be the one to ask: Where was the spirit of self-defense here? Setting aside the ludicrous campus ban on licensed conceals, why didn’t anyone rush the guy? It’s not like this was Rambo, hosing the place down with automatic weapons. He had two handguns for goodness’ sake—one of them reportedly a .22.
At the very least, count the shots and jump him reloading or changing hands. Better yet, just jump him. Handguns aren’t very accurate, even at close range. I shoot mine all the time at the range, and I still can’t hit squat. I doubt this guy was any better than I am. And even if hit, a .22 needs to find something important to do real damage—your chances aren’t bad.
Yes, yes, I know it’s easy to say these things: but didn’t the heroes of Flight 93 teach us anything? As the cliche goes—and like most cliches. It’s true—none of us knows what he’d do in a dire situation like that. I hope, however, that if I thought I was going to die anyway, I’d at least take a run at the guy.
Derb’s belief that he’d “at least take a run at the guy” is a strange conceit for a man who on the same day wrote this in a memorial to Pat Buckley, wife of William F. Buckley, the publisher of the National Review:
My own recollection of first meeting Pat Buckley was pure Boswell-Johnson. It was at a drinks-and-chat session in the Buckleys’ drawing-room prior to my first editorial dinner. I passed a remark about the Mississippi River, to the effect that on first seeing it, down in the lower reaches by Natchez, I’d been disappointed to find it nothing like as wide as I’d thought.
Mrs. B. slapped me down briskly. “Nothing wrong with the Mississippi. It’s a beautiful river.” I sank into the sofa cushions & spent the rest of the session trying not to be seen. By the time dinner was served, though, I could see that Pat was repenting her sharpness. When at last I summoned the courage to speak up on something else, she expressed friendly agreement.
Derb simply sank into the sofa without a peep, neither deflecting the rebuke with a “Could you please elaborate, Mrs. Buckley?” or even an “I’m sorry, ma’am”. If a stern response to a verbal faux pas — c’mon, it’s a pretty common situation; we’ve all seen this sort of thing happen — is enough to make him fold like cheap patio furniture, I have very strong doubts that’d he’d fare much better in the highly unusual situation of having to face an armed gunman.
Don’t Mess with Steyn and Shaidle, Either
A day later, Mark Steyn put in his two cents in a National Review column titled A Culture of Passivity, where wrote “I’m not sure I’m ready to go the full Derb but I think he’s closer to the reality of the situation than most,”
and quotes my sometime blog sparring partner Kathy “Relapsed Catholic” Shaidle:
When we say “we don’t know what we’d do under the same circumstances”, we make cowardice the default position.
That’s pretty bold talk for someone who told me at the last blogging conference we were both at that she doesn’t like being put on the spot when it’s time to break out into discussion groups. Discussion groups with Warren Kinsella, the second-least-physically-intimidating Warren I know (the first being a rabbit warren), at that.
The Right-Wingers Who Disagree: Treacher, Levy and Penny
The interesting thing about these articles is not that many people on the left side of the blogosphere disagree with them, but that many notable people on the right feel pretty much the same way. Consider Jim Treacher over at The Daily Gut:
I like Steyn and Shaidle, and I agree with the point about not infantilizing these students. But I really think it’s wrong to blame the students for any part of this, and it’s possibly even a disgraceful thing to say.
Compare it to 9/11 all you want, but it’s nothing like that. Tactically, I mean. If somebody hijacks a plane, there’s no way to escape and nowhere to hide. And, post-9/11, a lot less chance that you’re going to land safely. You’re trapped in a metal tube with kind of a steep drop underneath, so your choices are very limited. If you know there’s no chance of getting out of it alive if you don’t fight back, the decision’s been made for you.
This is so different, and putting down the students for not being fearless action heroes is crap. (“Women and — if you’ll forgive the expression — men.” Ugh. Okay, Sgt. Rock.) The guy had two guns and who knows how much ammo, and he was shooting everyone in sight. They were unarmed. What were they supposed to do, fashion crude weapons out of available materials, form a battle plan, and charge him? That’s a lot to ask on a Monday morning. I’d try getting the hell out first. There’s no way they could have known he’d blocked off the exits. But hey, I guess I’m just yella.
Or The Daily Gut’s Levy, who followed up with this:
Here’s the bottom line: these kids (sorry, but as long as the drinking age in this country is 21, I’m calling them kids) were on a college campus, in classrooms and dorms, when a nutjob armed with two handguns walked in and started firing. And unlike, say, soldiers in a war zone, the students had no reasonable expectation that anything like this would happen, and I’m sure this fact alone made it completely unbelievable when it did.
And my guess is that Steyn, having never heard a shot fired in anger, would react the same way most of those kids did – by going into shock and shutting down.
And closer to home, Corner Brook, Newfoundland’s Damian Penny wrote:
We’d all like to believe we could be heroes if confronted with a maniac shooting up the place, but I’m 99.999999% sure I would have hidden or run away as fast as I could. And so would nearly all of you.
My Own Take
Although I’ve never had a gun pointed at me and have never been in a firefight that wasn’t paintball, I am familiar with firearms, as both Dad’s family and Mom’s family have something to do with them. I’ve felt the kickback of a .357 Magnum and the Flintstones-ish clunkiness of a Chinese AK-47 knockoff, but the weapon that I’m most familiar with is the Walther P22, a gun that many ranges typical let newbies and very occasional shooter like myself use because of its mild recoil, simple operation and features that make it harder to accidentally shoot yourself. It’s also one of the two weapons that Cho Seung-Hui used in his rampage.
While the P22 is a relative peashooter, it is still a firearm and should be handled with the care and safety procedures that a firearm demands. The first thing they teach you at a range is how to carry a gun when you’re not firing it and not to casually point that thing around. The underlying point to all these lessons is that the business end of a gun is nothing to be trifled with.
I’ve also taken my share of martial arts classes, and every instructor will tell you that when facing an armed opponent when you yourself are unarmed is to get the hell out of dodge. There’s a reason why the line “bringing a knife to a gunfight” is a metaphor for doing something stupid. That’s why Black Belt Magazine — whom I’m sure are not about rolling over and playing dead in a fight — states this quite clearly:
To recap, the recipe for action against an armed opponent is as follows: If you’re a civilian, your goal is to escape. If you’re in law enforcement, your goal is probably to arrest. If you’re in the military, your goal is usually to eliminate.
I’ve faced down (and won) against muggers in Prague and on Queen Street while busking — I even clocked a guy with my accordion and have the grille dents to prove it. But none of these guys had anything more deadly than a beer bottle. (In fact, the guy with the bottle tried to break it first, but after three tries, he gave up and just charged me. I threw him into Queen Street traffic, which didn’t harm him, but it certainly calmed his fighting mood.)
I think I’d try to take on an armed assailant, but only as a last resort, and only if he was reloading and being butter-fingered about it and if I could close the distance reasonably quickly. That’s a helluva lot of “ifs”, especially when you take into account the braggadocio that one can spout from the comfort and safety of a keyboard.
Your Opinion?
Well, it’s time for me to go earn a paycheque, so I’ll have to do more of this “thinking out loud” later. In the meantime, feel free to let me know what you think in the comments.
16 replies on “Self-Defense, Part 1: Blasted are the Meek”
I kinda like Derbyshire (his evolution defenses are great reading, as was his Bruce Lee reminscence), but yeah, these last comments were appalling. I’d like to see the NR staffers play a joke on him where they all wire themselves up with squibs, have somebody come in shooting blanks, and all pretend to get hit and see how he reacts.
Another right-winger, Derb’s co-blogger John Podhoretz is also quite disgusted.
Kim, after I’d posted my article, I thought exactly the same thing — that someone should find a way to get Derbyshire caught in a crossfire set up by Punk’d.
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Having been attacked once myself, and even having fought off the worst of it, I must emphasize that staying out of dangerous situations is the first goal.
Of course, French class is supposed to be safe. I am reasonably sure that I would have been taken so completely by surprise that I would have doubted my own eyes, had I been in one of those classrooms. Time taken to shake your head and be sure = too late to do anything about it.
As I watched a History Channel show about slave workers being burier alive, I said to myself, “Why would they just sit there and allow themselves to die??? If you know you are going to die then why not fight back with every breath??” It makes me think, as soon as you see someone die in a hail of gun fire, why not fight back? As well, I cannot say how I would truly react with a gun in my face. I might just go all noodle knees and fall down crying. I would like to think I would dive for the gun hoping that even if I caught one, the guy behind me would get him. Too many years of playing a hero in D&D makes me think I would react without thinking? Bravery or foolishness or just plain delusion?
Once again, I seek wisdom in the movies of Christopher Walkin:
“…Greg Stillson begins his speech, when Johnny decides it’s now or never. He begins to fire at Stillson, but misses several times. Stillson’s bodyguards open fire on him, but don’t mortally wound him. Johnny has Stillson in his sight and is about to pull the trigger when Stillson grabs a young child, and holds him up as a shield. Johnny pauses, not being able to shoot, and is shot twice by the bodyguards, falling off of the balcony, breaking his legs and back. Meanwhile, the young photographer Johnny met earlier gets a few pictures of Stillson using the child as a shield, and runs off. When he touches Stillson again, he sees and feels nothing, and knows that the terrible future Stillson would bring around as president will never come to pass.”
Right-wingers? Well, I guess people have to call use something, so I guess it could be worse… But other than that, I couldn’t agree more. Typing “I would have tried to do something” on the Internet is a far cry from sitting in class one second and getting shot at the next.
Jim Treacher
You mentioned paintball …
First time I went out for paintball, I automatically resorted to all of the cliche action moves I’d seen in the movies and found myself very, very shot.
Jim! Welcome to the Accordion Guy blog!
Well, politically speaking, you’re somewhat to the right of me — and I would suspect that I in turn may actually be a bit to the right of a good chunk of this blog’s readership. Hence the admittedly simplistic catch-all “right winger” label — you know what I mean, Jim!
Thanks for dropping by, and please do come again!
Couple of thoughts:
1. The idea that if the students would have been armed things would have played out differently is just as stupid as the comment on charging the guy. I could not find a story in which someone, carrying a concealed weapon, was successfully able to draw it and eliminate a thread.
2. As an off spring of this, even if all students would have been armed, the chances were good that they would have hidden (a story towards this in a bit), or if they would have started shooting in the confusion more people would have been injured or died.
3. The notion that a gun is an “equalizer” only holds true if the gun is already drawn and aimed, if it is still in your holster a paper weight would be just as useful.
4. Calling for more guns is asking to propose to put more cars on the road to overcome the problem of traffic congestion, likewise, how many people can one kill with a knife?
And now the promised story.
A few weeks ago a woman was shot and killed at the Airport in Stuttgart, Germany. A friend of mine was there that day, he saw it. The guy walked up, pulled the gun, shot the woman in the head, then three more times when she was on the ground then he dropped the gun and started walking out.
Everybody and I mean truly everybody, including the cops, where in hiding, once the shooting stopped panic started setting in and people ran everywhere. The cops never drew their guns, they were too scared to do anything. And those are people who are trained to use their guns. This was in an airport for crying out loud where since 9/11 supposedly nothing can happen anymore.
And yet, gun advocates are telling us that if we just arm everybody we’d all be safer.
Thought #1: I fail to see how Michael K. can believe that some armed students would not have changed the events at Virginia Tech. Of course he starts out by calling the idea stupid instead of presenting a point which should clue you to think that his reasoning is weak to begin with.
Tought #2: All situations are not alike and assuming that armed students would have hidden is a false notion. Secondly, there may be people who might shoot without clearly aiming at a threatening individual. Such people should either be trained when and when not to discharge a firearm or not own one.
Thought #3: This one begins with some poor reasoning as well. From the first person accounts clearly some people at the school heard alarming noises before encountering the gunman and if armed likely would have drawn a weapon if they had one. If guns are such a poor “equalizer” why do cops and armored car guards carry them as a matter of course?
Thought #4: Michael K. may be incapable or unwilling to understand how the wider possession of guns in the hands of an average college student would make incidents like Virgina Tech less likely to occur or reduce the number of students murdered but don’t allow his inability lead anyone into thinking that such a position doesn’t exist.
As for that airport incident in Germany. If the armed cops weren’t useful then, why not call for them to be eliminated–if they can’t protect everybody, perhaps we need less cops.
If the rules were followed and the mental health flag was up on his record, perhaps this never would have happend. Seeing someone shot in cold blood will send most into shock.
I’ve never fired a handgun, but I’m reasonably experienced with long guns, and I’ve killed various species of game. (And the rest of the hunting story, cleaning and skinning and so on.)
Were I in a situation where I was unarmed and there was a gunman, I’m pretty sure I’d be fleeing the scene, if all alone. With my kid in tow? I don’t know. She is a black-belt martial artist, but her school also teaches the students to flee from a situation where the opponent is armed. I’d like to think I’d be as heroic as Dr. Liviu Librescu, but I don’t know if I’d have the presence of mind.
I refer you and your readers to what was said by Old Jarhead at Making Light:
In the same article, Making Light quotes
Libby Spenser:
I was talking with a pal who is a police officer, who pointed out:
1. In war, you have the assumption the other side wants to stay alive as much as you do (he said, “run away to fight another day.”) In a situation like VTech, the shooter doesn’t want to get out alive. The difference in assumptions is critical–the shooter will be indifferent to threat and superior firepower. (He also spoke about “suicide by cop”, and how officers respond in that situation.)
2. Never underestimate the IQ- and motivation-lowering effects of fear and shock–and I guarantee that seeing a fellow student’s bleeding dead body would induce shock, unless the viewer had been intensively trained to respond differently. What college student has that sort of training (unless she is ex-military or has been an EMT or the like)?
Congratulations, Joey. You managed to misinterpret a) what I said to you at a conference years ago and b) my overall position on V-Tech.
Mark was actually quoting something I’d said about the Montreal Massacre. But my site does have other posts on V-Tech specifically, which are mostly about our responses to seriously deranged responses to situations like this (the cliches, the teddy bears, the bad poetry) more than they are about the students.
Hey, I thought you’d love my little pot-shot at Kinsella!
I’m going to have to cover your other points later, as it’s time to contribute my part to the GDP, but I owe you the courtesy of a response.
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